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broken compass
Limited Member
Posts: 230

When Copper coins are minted, they are mostly red in color. Below is an example of a coin which has 95% or more red surface on it. Only if it has 95% or more red surface on it, will it be classified as RD(Red) by grading agencies. A Red coin therefore is an indication of least reaction with the elements and therefore rarer than red brown or brown colored coins. 



When the air reacts with the surface of the red copper coin, it starts oxidising and the red color starts slowly getting converted to brown. Because of this, the coin starts getting a reddish-brown appearence like the coin below. A coin graded as RB(Red Brown) is usually a coin that has 5% to 95% red on it.


 

Due to more reaction with air, the coin completely turns brown like the coin below. A coin classified as BN(Brown) is usually a coin that contains 5% or less red on it.


Given a bunch of coins, given the coins have the same amount of wear on it, the color of the coin would determine the price of the coin. A Red coin of the same grade carries a high premium compared to Red-Brown coin of the same grade and a Red brown coin carries a higher premium than a brown coin.

(C) Heritage Auction Galleries

September 28, 2011 at 12:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

kidromeo
Administrator
Posts: 124

I got a question for you BC since you are a slab collector :D . Now RD coins in slabs sells at a premium over RB and BN coins. So does it mean that the slabbed RD coins won't tone brownish over the years? I'm saying this coz I think have seen some old ANACS slabbed US pennies that were graded as RD but appeared more RB. Is the ceasement of toning guranteed by the TPGs?

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"Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over"

September 28, 2011 at 7:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

broken compass
Limited Member
Posts: 230

TPG's grade a coin based on the shape of the coin at the moment in time. When they slab the coins, they usually put it in a acoustic safe, airtight holders. When there is no reaction with air, the possibility of oxidation is very less and therefore the shape of the coin should ideally be maintained. It is possible that ANACS didn't grade the coins right(They were rumoured to have had a very bad QC and they let things past, thats why they arent as famous as NGC or PCGS) or it is possible that the slab is not completely air tight/ moisture proof/ was damaged. They don't provide any guarantees for what might happen to the coin after it has been graded.

Unrelated Info to your question :)

They have a lot of processes put in place to ensure the grade is correct. Any coin that passes through NGC/PCGS is tested for authenticy using a variety of techniques and onces the authenticy is checked, the coin goes to three different graders who indendently grade the coin and if the grades are same that will be the final grade of the coin. Or they will discuss about it until the grade is finalized. Then it passes through QC where another person checks the same and decides if the grades are worth it. Otherwise, it would be sent back again into the grading process to another set of 3 graders.

September 28, 2011 at 10:58 AM Flag Quote & Reply

broken compass
Limited Member
Posts: 230

Here's an answer from PCGS about the same

Q: Can my coin change appearance after being placed in a PCGS holder?

A: It is extremely unlikely that your coin will change appearance within a PCGS holder. The PCGS holder was designed specifically for the long-term storage and protection of your coins. The holder itself is made of inert materials that keep your coin safe. The sealed holder inhibits the entrance of atmospheric gases and contaminants that might harm your coin. Even so, common sense dictates that should keep your PCGS graded coins safe for a lifetime. Avoid humidity and excessive temperature swings by keeping your coins in a dry environment, preferably at a constant room temperature. If you have a coin that you think has changed in the holder, contact PCGS Customer Service and we can arrange to examine the coin for you.

September 28, 2011 at 11:02 AM Flag Quote & Reply

kidromeo
Administrator
Posts: 124

Thanks BC. My questions are answered but in defence of ANACS I would like to say that ANACS's QC is no worse than that of PCGS or NGC. For example in the CT forum long time back there was a guy who posted 2~3 pics of PCGS misattributing some common Indian coins. Also NGC made a lots of mistakes classifying VAMs.  In my opinion NGC and PCGS are market leaders because they are over hyped by dealers with CAC exclusivity, Official ANA grading service and all that stuff. ANACS offers the same grade gurantee as NGC or PCGS for a service charge which is much less. As the saying goes: Buy the coin not the slab :)

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"Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over"

September 28, 2011 at 4:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

broken compass
Limited Member
Posts: 230

True that NGC does make mistakes inspite of the boasted QC. In fact they mis attributed my 1/4 anna as (B) instead of (C). But I like NGC's holders better than PCGS and ANACS is at the bottom of my list. If I am going to slab my coin and pay for it, I would rather pay for it to be in a holder I would like to see it in ;)

September 28, 2011 at 6:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

kidromeo
Administrator
Posts: 124

Bottom of your list!!! Gee, that's kinda harsh. Have you seen their new cute blue slabs


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"Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over"

September 29, 2011 at 9:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

broken compass
Limited Member
Posts: 230

haha! I have seen it but doesn't appeal to me like NGC's slabs. Didn't know you were a slab collector :)

September 29, 2011 at 10:22 AM Flag Quote & Reply

kidromeo
Administrator
Posts: 124

LOL....I do have a few slabs but none from NGC or PCGS as I paid for the coin and not the plastic :D

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"Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over"

September 29, 2011 at 11:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

broken compass
Limited Member
Posts: 230

Well that is one way of looking at it. But a coin that is graded by NGC/ PCGS always fetches the highest price. In fact a slabbed coin lessens the question of authenticity. The difference between an unslabbed MS 64/ MS 67 is extremely difficult to make out even for the experienced but a MS 67 is worth 10's of times more than MS 64. I rarely buy slabbed coins but I always slab my best coins :) 

September 29, 2011 at 5:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

broken compass
Limited Member
Posts: 230

See what I mean? :)

This coin unslabbed wouldn't sell for as much, IMHO

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1906-India-1-4-Anna-PCGS-MS65-RB-/220863962601?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336c849de9#ht_1979wt_1185

September 29, 2011 at 6:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

kidromeo
Administrator
Posts: 124

I don't have profit making plans by selling any coin from my collection in near or distant future, so which slab fetches what price is irrelevant to me. Also I only purchase el cheapo stuff and am a conservative grader, so a difference of a few Sheldon points won't cost me in thousands. But now a days authenticity is a concern thanks to Chinese entrepreneurs, so I tend to buy stuff that I have sufficient knowledge of or ask someone else who do. IMHO choice of TPGs or raw coins varies for different collectors and buying coins slabbed by PCGS or NGC isn't always the smartest thing to do.

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"Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over"

September 30, 2011 at 6:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply

broken compass
Limited Member
Posts: 230

Totally understand your point of view. Makes sense.

I don't have enough Moolah! I gotta fund my own collection(though I have sold only one coin so far), can't afford to keep buying :)

September 30, 2011 at 11:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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